Listen to Episode 3, “For the Common Good”
We rejoin Herman Daly in the late 1970s – a tumultuous time for our renegade economist. His so-called “radical” critiques of endless growth – and his insistence that the economy must operate within the Earth’s limits – left him isolated in his field and at odds with colleagues. Yet, from this difficult period emerged a new vision of economics. Partnering with theologian John Cobb Jr., Daly began to rebuild the discipline from the ground up, reframing it around values, community, and the planet that sustains us. The two intellectuals also drew on their religious faith to ground their vision, laying the foundations for future Christian ecological work.
Central to this vision was the ends–means spectrum, Herman’s framework for asking what the economy is truly for. With Cobb, he also introduced the Index of Sustainable Economic Welfare (ISEW), a measure that challenged GDP by valuing wellbeing, equality, and the health of nature.
Woven through this intellectual journey are stories of faith, family, and friendship that helped Daly persevere. We hear how he sparked a global community of scholars and inspired whole new movements, ranging from wellbeing and regenerative economics to the circular economy and doughnut economics. And, we’ll explore how the wellbeing of Herman’s family was threatened, as anonymous threats pushed them away from Baton Rouge, with Herman preparing to bring his voice – and his vision – to the global stage.
Featured in this episode:
Gaya Herrington, Wellbeing economist and thought leader.
Jennie King, Senior Fellow at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue
Peter Victor, Professor Emeritus of Ecological Economics and author of Herman Daly’s Economics for a Full World
Sandrine Dixson-Declève, Global Ambassador for The Club of Rome
Robert Costanza, Professor of Ecological Economics at University College London
Terri Daly Stewart, Senior Occupational Therapist, and Herman and Marcia’s eldest daughter
Karen Daly Junker, Senior Manager of Provenance Research at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, and Herman and Marcia’s youngest daughter
Brian Czech, Executive Director of the Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy (CASSE)
Rob Dietz, Program Director at the Post Carbon Institute and co-host of the Crazy Town podcast
Clovis Cavalcanti, Ecological Economist
Katy Shields, Regenerative Economist, and co-creator/host of the Tipping Point podcast
Katherine Trebeck, Political economist and writer
Thank you to the Daly family for their generous support in sharing Herman’s story, and to Barbara Barros, C40 Global Head of Adaptation Finance, for voicing Marcia Daly’s email in this episode.
Thank you also to our series consultants and fact checkers, Peter Harnik, Rob Dietz, and Peter Victor, who also graciously supplied the interview tape with Herman Daly, recorded in 2022.
Media citations in this episode by order of appearance:
Reuters historical collection – “Poison Fog (1948)”
Densho Encyclopedia – “U.S. Government Newsreel: Japanese Relocation”
About the Podcast:
Going Steady with Herman Daly: How to Unbreak the Economy (and the Planet) is a five-episode miniseries from the team behind the acclaimed Cities 1.5 podcast, and is created in partnership with C40 Cities, the C40 Centre and University of Toronto Press.
Featuring previously unreleased interviews with Daly, the miniseries guides the listener through a life shaped by childhood polio, Latin American epiphanies and a passionate, lifelong love story. Daly’s economic ideas – which advocated for a system which incorporated climate, social, and economic justice – were considered so radical that threats were made against his family, and traditional economists shunned him, all culminating in a dramatic resignation from the World Bank. Yet three years after his death, in the face of rising temperatures, extreme weather events, and ecological and economic collapse, climate leaders and progressive economists, globally, feel that Herman’s heretical thinking may be the only way to unbreak our economy. and our planet.
For media citations, please go to the Cities 1.5 episode webpage on the University of Toronto Press website, here.