Yu Shuet, a former Cantonese Red Guard, fled to Hong Kong in 1973, thoroug hly disillusioned with the 'Great, Glorious, Socialist Red China'. Despite Maoist accusations that she had become a rightwinger she re-immersed herself in social-revolutionary struggle on arrival. In 1974 her essay The Dust of Rationality was published, criticising Maoism and exposing the real conditions inside China. She then edited, with Wu Man, The Revelations That Moved The World To Tears, a collection of poetry, letters and short stories written by young people inside China. Yu Shuet is currently writing a book analysing the roots of China's presentday totalitarian character. Zero talked with her about the role of women in the country where according to Mao's phrase, women hold up half the sky.

Can you give us a general outline of the position of women in Chinese society and compare it with the situation of women in Hong Kong?
It's much better if you ask specific questions, because I don't know much about Hong Kong.

What is the family structure like in today's Red China? Are there any differences from the traditional type, have there been any moves to change it since 1949?
There are no changes at all. Very much the same as in the traditional way: the father is still the head of the family and everyone else is under his authority.

How about free love and living together, is this allowed in China?
Of course it is not so open as it is in Hong Kong, especially since it is not allowed within the ideology. For example, if you and I talk about this question you don't feet surprised or freaked out — but, in China, if you talk freely to anyone that you are living with someone then people will probably show surprise and even reprove you.

Does the party take any action against those that live together?
Yes, it's illegal - you can be sent to labour re-education.1

What is their excuse?
Illicit intercourse.

Will they condemn you as petty-bourgeois?
Of course, but this is not the reason for your sentence, it's only our thought critique.

Is there any age limit for marriage?
They are advocating late marriage at the moment.

Is there a fixed minimum age for marriage?
Yes, 28 for men and 26 for women.2

How about divorce?
Yes you can get a divorce, but you have to get permission, i.e. a divorce certificate.

If the divorce is only raised by one side, what happens?
There has to be agreement on both sides before a divorce settlement. I think it's the same everywhere in the world.

Are abortion and contraceptives available in China?
Yes, as China advocates birth control, it is available. It doesn't matter whether you are married or not, you can get an abortion and contraception. However. this is only a recent development, and the reason is population control, not woman's emancipation. China's population is too large.

If an unmarried woman becomes pregnant, is it possible for her to get an abortion?
I think their basis for abortion is very simple, they don't consider whether you're married or not. But the people in your unit know about it, you can be sent to labour re-education for having illicit intercourse.

Well, it's quite easy for the people in the unit to know aboln it, so in other words, it's very easy for you to get sentenced.
Yes.

Is there any incidence of rape in China?
Yes, a lot. Many prisoners are jailed because of this.

What is the court's attitude to the woman In such cases?
I don't know about that.3

Are there any cases of battered wives in China, as this is very common in Hong Kong.

Yes, it's the same in China. I would say that male chauvinism is even greater in China than Hong Kong. In Hong Kong, women are more independent and if such thinge occur, they can leave the family, or get a divorce, but it's very difficult to get a divorce in China or to leave the family, so even if women are beaten up, there is still nothing they can do.

How about the government. We always hear through the media that they are trying to raise the position of women in China.
Oh, this is only for their own political reasons. What they want is to have some women to participate in some roles in the administration. For example, in the factories they want some women to become part of the administrative staff, or in the Standing Committee of the Peoples Conference there may be some women to vice-chair some committees. In other words, they just want to put some women in some positions in the government or party.

This to me, is not women's liberation at all. It is only a type of official politics; they just want as many people to participate in their party politics as possible. It is to serve their politics, and it is not going to get you freedom.

In production, they are trying to get more women to work. For example, in factories they set up nurseries, the reason being to get more women to work, because in a lot of traditional villages, there's still a large number of women not taking part in production as they have children to look after, and this reduces the production force. It is for this reason they set up the nurseries, not tor women's liberation.

So, their 'women's liberation' is designed to get more productive labour and to provide more tools to make people participate in their politics. It is very mush the same as in Hong Kong and the west. The capitalists say that women should have their right to work in society, but when they say so, their motive is achieve a better way to use the whole human race; why just exploit male labour on the market, the women should be exploited too!

They are not looking at it from a revolutionary humanitarian point of view at all. The Chinese government only advocated 'women's liberation' from a capitalist profit-making viewpoint, not real emancipation. For example, there is the very laughable thing where they say that a man can go out into the field to wash the cows, so women should be able to do that too: a man can lift 150 catty (250lbs) so women should be able to do that too. This is very clearly ridiculous, they just want to exploit women's labour, because we know women are obviously physically different from men.

Also it's clear that their view is that mean are all right - what is needed now is to raise the capability of women in production.
Yes, not like maths where one is equal to one. Even among men there are different capabilities; some men can lift 150 catty, others can't. They are not talking about everyone doing what they can, just about exploiting everyone equally.

Is it easy for women to ger promoted at work?
No, it's not easy at all. That's why the government have had to start their campaign, just took at the situation in their Central Committee and see how many women are in it, then we can understand how bad the situation is.

Can you give us a general outline about the nursery system? Do women have to go to the nursery to look after their children during their tea-breaks?
The nursery is available to all babies and children up to seven. It only opens during the daytime and the children have to be taken home after they close. It depends how old the children are; if they need to be breast-fed, then the mothers have to go to the nursery to feed them; if they don't need feeding then the mothers aren't allowed to see their children. They still breast-feed children in China, only one tin of powdered milk is issued when a child as born. Anyway, in most of the farming villages they don't have any nursery.

Is there any difference in education between the sexes?
No, there are none, but I think that it's going that way and that sooner or later there will be a difference.

Is it easy for women to get into higher education?
It is still less in percentage terms, but I don't know the reason.

Is there any difference between men and women's wages?
There is a difference in the farming villages, but not in the factories - theclass of skilled labour you are determines your wage. In the farming villages it is quite common for women to get two work points4 less than men.

In the factories, what class of skilled labour do the women usually belong to.
I don't know much about the factories. I believe there is a difference between men and women. It is usually that men are skilled workers and women are not, and therefore get lower wages. I believe it is the culture which always makes women less important than men, so they tend not to become technically skilled.

Is there any sex education in Chinese schools?
No there is no sex education in schools. And even in health education when the teacher mentions sex, they laugh.

Is there any difference In expectations regarding the sexes?
No, except in old peoples' minds. However, as the children grow up, they realise that they have less and less control over their lives—they give up.

Do people talk about masturbation?
No, they don't. They may not even know about the term at all. I think if you talk about it, they'd probably see you as floods and monsters!5 Of course, in reality it exists; some friend told me that in the labour camp he saw people punished for it.

And what is their attitude towards homosexuals?
Floods and monsters!

Have women In China heard about the women's movement In the West?
No. The only one who talked about it is Chiang Chin,6 and what she said is what I have just told you.

During the cultural revolution, did you ever think about the problems that women face?
No. We were only students then and we didn't suffer much repression, so we hadn't thought about it at all.

What Is your view of women's liberation now?
I think it is very important and our emancipation is a very basic thing, because the family is the basic unit of our society - without its liberation we cannot have the liberation of society.

• 1Labour camps used to 're-educate' offenders.
• 2While not actually illegal it is officially unacceptable to marry below this age.
• 3Trials are not closed in China but they are unannounced. Consequently most Chinese know almost nothing about the functioning of the courts.
• 4Work voucher system by which village and agricultural workers are paid.
• 5Floods and monsters is a Chinese expression for something that is so dangerous nothing can stop it
• 6Chiang Chin, member of Central Committee until early this year when she was arrested as one the 'gang of four'.